The ‘Unconquerable Grail Mood’

In light of the situation in Ukraine, I have been reading “The Spiritual Origins of Eastern Europe & the Future Mysteries of the Holy Grail”, by Sergei O. Prokofieff. This is where I heard about: The legendary city of Kitezh – which gives us a look at the goal of the Slavic Folk Soul – to help unveil the Sophia as a future evolutionary impulse.

The Legend tells us that Georgy II, Grand Prince of Vladimir 1st built the town of Kitezh in 1235 – a sacred place where the largest Cathedral to The Sophia was at its center. The Mongol ruler Batu Khan after having conquered some other Russian lands heard of the splendor of Kitezh & ordered his army to advance towards it. One of the captured prisoners confessed under torture & told the Mongols about the secret paths to Lake Svetloyar. The Horde soon reached the town. To the surprise of the Mongols, the town had no fortifications. Its citizens didn’t even defend themselves, they were deeply engaged in fervent praying, asking the Mother of God for their salvation. On seeing this, the Mongols rushed to the attack, but then stopped, because suddenly, they witnessed huge fountains of water bursting up from under the ground all around them. The Mongol horde fell back & watched as the glorious town became submerged in the lake. The last thing they saw was the golden dome of the cathedral with a fiery chalice on top. Soon only waves remained.

This legend gave birth to numerous claims about the lost city. It is said that only those who are pure in heart & soul will ever find their way to Kitezh. Although sometimes folks report hearing the sound of chiming bells, or voices singing from under the waters of Lake Svetloyar when the weather is calm. Some stories claim that the most pious individuals may actually see the lights of spiritual processions & even the cathedral there at the bottom of the lake. For this reason, Lake Svetloyar is sometimes called the “Russian Atlantis”. It is thought that when Humankind has reached the stage of Spirit-Self – the purification of our astral body, that the invisible city of Kitezh will return as the New Jerusalem.  

It’s interesting to study what Rudolf Steiner gave us about the importance of the Slavic impulse. In 1916, during the First World War, in a powerful series of lectures, which I often referred to during our recent world crisis, called “The Karma of Untruthfulness” – Steiner confirms that The Slavic Impulse & the Russian state are not the same – that actually the Russian state as well as the corporate American interests are extremely hostile to the Slavic element, (which seeks to humble humanity) wanting instead to destroy it, or use it for its own economic domination.

The true Spiritual Slavic impulse that holds the New Mystery of the New Isis-Mary-Sophia, lives in the cultural & spiritual diversity of Eastern Europe, striving for freedom & peace.

The circumstances which could and should have been brought about — not because of the wishes of some ruler or other, but because of the purpose of world evolution – would truly have had a liberating effect on the Slavic folk element. But Russianism wants to confine the Slavic element within its own framework and use it as its tool.The speed with which such things come to realization depends, of course, on all kinds of side-currents and peripheral circumstances. But it is important to have an eye for what is gathering momentum in any particular direction. Obviously, therefore, only those who understand the Slavic element more deeply can understand what web is really being woven, and also that those who want to destroy the Slavic element through Russianism had to work against more healthy endeavours.” ~Rudolf Steiner, The Karma of Untruthfulness

Prokofieff gives us the picture of the ‘unconquerable Grail Mood’ which has lived from the earliest times in the souls of the Eastern Slavs. My prayer is that besides the obvious despotism of the Russian State, that this powerful Grail Mood won’t be high jacked by the rhetoric & materialism of Corporate America under the guise of protecting the people from another ‘strongman.’ Read between the lines dear friends, not everything is as it seems on the screen between commercials.  

~hag

TONIGHT Wednesday May 4th 7 pm PDT on ZOOM for the Sacramento Faust Branch

From Necessity to Freedom – The Evolution of Human Consciousness

From the vaporous cleft of Mount Parnassus, and the birth place of Greek Philosophy, to Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel, and the Holy Grail – From Prophesy to Warning, from Fate to Karma, From Destiny to Free Will.

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 4 May 2022 – “Speaking with the Stars”: The Eta Aquariid meteor shower are starting to come in.

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Rudolf Steiner’s Lectures on this day 

ON THIS DAY IN HISTORY – Past/Present/Future:

250 AD – Feast day of St. Florian the patron of Upper Austria, chimney sweeps; soapmakers, & firefighters. The “Florian Principle” (known in German language areas as “Sankt-Florians-Prinzip”) is named after a somewhat ironic prayer to Saint Florian: “O heiliger Sankt Florian, verschon’ mein Haus, zünd’ and’re an”, equivalent to “O Holy St. Florian, please spare my house, set fire to another one”. This saying is used in German much like the English “not in my back yard. The name Florian is considered synonymous with fireman in the German speaking world. In some cases call for a fireman will actually be spoken as calls for Florian.

1493 – The Division of the world: The Spanish-born Pope Alexander VI decreed in a Papal Bull that all lands west & south of a pole-to-pole line one hundred leagues west & south should belong to Spain. Portugal objected because its status & rights had been omitted & overlooked. King John II of Portugal began negotiations directly with King Ferdinand & Queen Isabella of Spain to push the line west & allow him to lay claim to lands discovered east of it. The result was the Treaty of Tordesillas.

1875 – Birthday of Hermann Beckh a pioneering German Tibetologist & prominent promoter of anthroposophy.

Due to his unusual memory skills, & his many interests & talents, his peers encouraged him towards law. It became clear to him that he was not made out to be a judge when he had to impose a fine on a poor married couple for stealing wood. He paid the couple’s fine out of his own pocket & left his position.

He later took up the study of oriental languages, Indology, & Tibetology. In 1907, he received his doctorate with a thesis on Kalidasa’s poem Meghaduta.

In 1911, he met Rudolf Steiner & Friedrich Rittelmeyer, which led to his intensive study of Steiner’s work. On Christmas Day, 1912, he became a member of the Anthroposophical Society.

In 1916, Beckh was drafted into military service, shortly after he published two volumes about the Buddha & his teachings. Stationed in the Balkans, he was called to work in the Kiel Institute for the World Economy. Due to his task, he learned the Scandinavian languages in addition to: English, French, Italian, Classical Greek & Latin, Hebrew, Egyptian, Sanskrit, Tibetan & Old Persian.

From 1920 onwards, he worked as a lecturer of anthroposophy. In March 1922, he joined the Circle of Priests of The Christian Community & worked until his death as a priest, seminary teacher, lecturer, independent researcher & writer. In 1928, “Mark’s Gospel: The Cosmic Rhythm” was published, in which he related the narration of the gospel of Mark to the path of the sun through the twelve zodiac signs. In Beckh’s exposition, Mark’s gospel could be understood more in connection with the “earthly” signs seen in the planets, & John’s gospel more in connection with the “stellar” zodiac  of the fixed stars. At the time of The Mystery of Golgotha the planets & the constellations were together, not separate as they are now, due to the progression of the equinoxes.  In the Introduction to the sequel, “The Cosmic Rhythm, the Secrets of the Stars & Earth in the Gospel of John” (1930), Beck favorably mentioned Wilhelm Kaiser’s “Die geometrischen Vorstellungen in der Astronomie” (1928), & referred to The Novices of Sais, of Novalis.  Beckh died in Stuttgart, in 1937.

‘Let Freedom Ring – Reclaiming the Wisdom of Columbia – Folk Soul of America’.

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Hazel Archer-Ginsberg – Founder of Reverse Ritual: Understanding Anthroposophy through the Rhythms of the Year & the ‘I Think Speech’ Podcast. Trans-denominational Minister, Essayist, Lecturer, Poet, Anthroposopher – working as the Cultural Events & Festivals Coordinator of the Chicago Rudolf Steiner Branch, & as the Central Regional Council representative on the General Council of the Anthroposophical Society in America. Past Video Recordings

Announcing an exciting Event on Ascension Thursday, May 26th 7 – 8:30 pm Eastern time. for the Great Boston Branch.

Climbing Jacob’s Ladder – Celebrating the Festival of Ascension with Hazel Archer-Ginsberg

In heavy clouds let Him ascend
And so also let Him downward tread.
In cooling streams let Him be sent,
In flames of fire blaze His descent,
In air & essence, sound & dew
To permeate our whole earth thru
” ~Novalis

Ascension is a Festival of the Elements, & of the Hierarchies, it relates to the Transfiguration & the fulfillment of the promise of the ‘Second Coming’. Together we will explore the mystery of ‘As Above so Below’.

Hazel Archer-Ginsberg is a trans-denominational minister, essayist, lecturer, performer, and poet. She writes and curates ‘Reverse Ritual, Understanding Anthroposophy Through the Rhythms of the Year’ and the ‘I Think Speech’ podcast. Hazel’s been the Cultural Events and Festivals Coordinator for the Rudolf Steiner Branch in Chicago for over 10 years. She is a member of the Central Regional Council, the School for Spiritual Science, the Esoteric Youth Circle, and the General Council of the Anthroposophical Society in America.

Register by RSVPing to Diane McGary, mcgary.family@comcast.net, by Sunday, May 22nd, and You will receive an email with the zoom link on Tuesday.

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55 thoughts on “The ‘Unconquerable Grail Mood’

  1. Hi Maverick,

    I am thinking that this whole thread has become somewhat disorganized, and it is not our fault. It has to do with the WordPress format, which only allows so many ‘reply buttons’, until it runs out. That is why I did not see your comment about your affiliation with Philadelphia, or your asking me about mine with Sardis. This kind of concern of interest is very important.

    What interests me very much about the 6th Letter to Philadelphia is how it acknowledges for the first time that a little power now exists. The previous five letters have all included a note of admonishment, but herein in this sixth letter, the concept of the Key of David is introduced. So, what does this mean, and why the relation to David?

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+3&version=NASB1995

    You will find something very interesting in your analysis of the seven letters. For example, the second letter has a relationship to the sixth, and this is denoted by the reference to the synagogue of satan, which only appears here. Thus, the 6th letter is an evolution over the 2nd, which comes from an earlier epoch. I find it so interesting that you appeal to the 6th letter of Philadelphia. It indicates for the first time that a certain amount of power is now given. I can see why you would lose interest in the mineral kingdom by this time.

    Yet, we still live in Sardis, and what that means. I guess this is where I come in with my case. As such, it says that we still live in Sardis, or the 5th Cultural Epoch, and therein a few will display unsoiled garments in order to walk with Christ. This is also covered in the reference above. I admit that I can attest to that fact of experiencing Christ in the form He is now conveying. I have even described it extensively to both you and Hazel in the near past. I also know that words are only words. Yet, words help describe the matter, don’t they?

    1. Thanks Steve – got your message loud and clear. I hadn’t noticed the issue with the Reply button, but may have also missed a few things. I’m thrilled to see how you’ve awakened your scholarly instincts as we’ve been discussing this subject, and your comments here are very much appreciated. Especially appreciate your comparison of the 2nd and 6th letters/epochs – gets me thinking of other combinations in the letters/epochs. Cheers.

      1. Kyle brought up an interesting observation concerning the seven letters to the churches, and it reminded me that you see the seven letters as being related to the Physical Body, is that right? Then, you see the seven seals and their unsealing as being related to the Etheric Body, is that right? Then, the seven trumpets as being related to the Astral Body, and the seven deadly sins [woes, demons] as being related to the Ego.

        You see, this is the kind of consolidation we need to entertain here. This is an important topic, and let’s not lose it. Wherever the discussion takes place, the largest platform is the best. Kind regards.

        1. The best I can answer, is that my views of the Revelation are constantly morphing and evolving. I’ve been interested in the book for probably 30 years – the first it came to my attention was when I was a churchgoer, just being introduced to the spiritual world – very basic. Of course, I wondered, as many do, about all the varying interpretations of it – quite confusing. Cayce’s interpretation of the book came next for me; it certainly started to make more sense, and so different from the various “religious” interpretations. Then, about 3 years ago I was introduced to Steiner’s contribution – here was someone speaking earnestly out of the spiritual world on this subject. So you can see what I mean when I say my understanding is evolving.

          I know that the Logos has the correct interpretation, and that I just need to receive it as it’s given/spoken to me. Reminds me of our etheric body – so thankful that it keeps me alive, because if it were up to me to keep myself alive, what with all the changes in our cosmic environment, it’d drive me bonkers. That’s what the Revelation’s like – more understanding comes as I’m ready to receive it. Having said that, FOR NOW where I’m at is that the physical body is dealt with in John’s vision of the perfect Human being, the one like a Son of Man. This being is an example, a Pattern I hope to fit into; someday I hope to be one of those fully evolved humans, able to walk among the lampstands of the etheric bodies of those who don’t “overcome” our present world, to be of service to them.

          The letters, which I’m still in an in-depth study of, pertain to my etheric body (I accept that they also represent evolutionary epochs, as per Steiner, but for me, especially with all I’m learning in Astrology, I’m feeling more of the planetary movements that are always in motion in my etheric body (we just read in KOHW today – “Now the particles of the etheric body are in continual motion” Metaxa version).

          I see the opening of the seals to be more in line with my astral body. The seals are something that we need to use caution before we open them – to me, they represent what Brian Gray tells us (from Steiner), that they are our EXPERIENCES of the planetary movements. They’re something that touches us to the depths of our soul, and we must be prepared before they’re opened, as John is through his vision of the throne scene. Every symbol/emblem in that throne scene is so important to properly prepare us for their opening.

          I’m still not sure where the transition takes place when the Revelation switches to the “I”, but it’s there. My sense right now is that it’s represented in Sophia giving birth in chapter 12. A shift takes place there, with the measurement (evaluation) with the reed as I mentioned earlier taking place just prior. Hoping that in another 30 years I’ll have a much greater understanding of this book; John was in his 90’s when he received this message wasn’t he? All of what I’ve said is only for discussion purposes – may the living Word, the Logos, lead us all into a more perfect understanding, our own revelation of this precious book.

          1. Steiner summarizes the seven churches as physical locations in west asia minor, which are actually still there and closely connected together near the Ionian coast. Thus, in definite respects, the seven letters and what they proclaim, refer to the Physical Body and Its metamorphosis over time. As well, when the book with seven seals begins to be unsealed, what comes forth? Horses. What does the Horse symbolize? Intelligence. What is the seat of intelligence, which finally comes down to the gray horse of the Greek epoch? The Etheric Body.

            Remember where it is said that no one can be found worthy to open the book with the seven seals, and John is reduced to tears? Then, an Angel declares that there *is* someone worthy to open the book with the seven seals. This is a strong Angel, who says, “the Lion of the House of Judah, the Root of David, is worthy to open the book”. Then, the most remarkable thing occurs. The Second Occult Seal Picture adds the Mystical Lamb in the center between the four heads. Thus, this becomes a pointer to the identity of the Lion. The Lion symbol refers to the Etheric Body.

            This lecture from Apocalypse of St. John is really important in helping to understand the seven letters:

            https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA104/English/APC1958/19080620p01.ht
            ml

            1. Maybe we should just give the 2nd Occult Seal Picture of how the Lamb suddenly appears in order to complete it.

              http://steinerlibrary.org/Lectures/101/AP1972/images/Seal_02.webp

              This constitutes the seminal mystery of the whole Revelation; the one who is worthy to open the seven seals. He is the Lamb of God, who sacrificed his blood for the nations. He is the one who is worthy to open the book with the seven seals. So, what is revealed is quite unexpected, and begins with horses.

              We can either make more of this, or not. I like the idea of inclusivity on it, but maybe it is over for now. No matter. There is always the future. And truth will always be truth.

              1. I like that you want to continue contemplating the “throne room” scene of Rev. 4 & 5. For me, I can’t separate the Lion of Judah and the Lamb, at least at this point in our evolution. That the Lion becomes the Lamb, illustrates for me the submission of our ego in order to take the path of sacrificial love. And not only the ego, but our will is involved, the entwining of our will with our Creator’s will. This is what will inspire the emerging of the “I” more than anything else.

              2. If the Lion is the Lamb, then there would be no separation. I agree with this assessment. It is interesting in this context to consider the potentially deeper meaning of what John the Baptist says to Jesus when he appears for the Baptism. John says, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”.

                […..]

                “and I did not recognize him”. John, 1:29

              3. That’s an amazing statement you point out, that John the Baptist didn’t recognize Him, or as my version says, “did not know HIm”. (vs. 31). An amazing fact because John was an Essene, as was Jesus, and would have had some contact with Jesus’ family (they were cousins); even though John’s mission was at the Jordan and Jesus’ family lived in Nazareth. This sudden recognition really points out the difference between the Jesus man before baptism, and the same man after the Spirit of God descended into Him, symbolized by the dove, the symbol John was told would mark out the Lamb of God. The significance of the Lamb of God meant a great deal to an Israelite – ever since Isaac was spared from being sacrificed by Abraham (Gen. 22), they would be expecting the Lamb who would take their place on the altar of sacrifice.

              4. Yet, what if it can be shown that John’s recognition of Jesus as the Lamb of God comes before the descent of the Son of God, symbolized by the Dove? John has just told priests and Levites, sent from Jerusalem to find out who he is, and why he baptizes in water, that standing among them is One who they do not know. “It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie”. [1,27]

                This discourse with the priests and Levites sent from the Pharisees occurs just one day before Jesus approaches John, who says, “Behold the Lamb of God. This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me’. [1,30] “And I did not recognize Him”. {1,31]

                Now, indeed, Jesus and John the Baptist are cousins, but we know this not from the Gospel of John, but from the Gospel of Luke. And we know only from the Fifth Gospel that Jesus and John came together at the Essene colony there in Israel. The question is to what extent did they know that they were cousins? John seems to indicate that he knows when Jesus appears for the Baptism. When he was in his mother’s womb, he lept for joy when the mother of Jesus, also having conceived, went to visit Elizabeth in the hill country of Judah.

                As for Jesus, what caused him to be drawn like a magnet to go from Nazareth to Bethany in order to meet the Baptizer? Answer: Destiny.

      2. Hi Maverick,

        Here is a good example of how one can lose these precious threads. You wrote this in response to Kyle, and it is awesome:

        https://reverseritual.com/the-unconquerable-grail-mood/#comment-31772

        It is too bad that we don’t have Brian Gray doing night work. 🙂

        Personally, I think he gives Steiner far more credit than Steiner ever wanted to take on. That is why we only have indications of Steiner’s “star wisdom” throughout the corpus of his teachings over the years. The reason is that Steiner actually espoused becoming free and independent of planetary influences, and the associated astrology. Yet, we still have these people at Star House. Remember, it is Robert Powell behind all this.

        1. Yes, I’m certainly aware of Robert Powell’s research, and I agree with Steiner that we want to be free of planetary influences. But for now, in “Sardis” as you’ve said, we have star wisdom for instruction; in the same manner as we have the book Intuitive Thinking as a Spiritual Path as instruction on how to correctly think. Actually, we are free right now when it comes to planetary influences – free to use them as we’d use tools, to accomplish our mission. The only problem is that, just as the majority of humanity hasn’t been trained to think properly by studying and applying Intuitive Thinking, most of humanity isn’t aware of how they can incorporate star wisdom on their journey home. The Star House, and others like Jonathan Hilton that Hazel introduced us to, are seeking to change that so that more are made aware.

          1. I agree wholeheartedly with all your sentiments, and especially as it comes forth in the era of Sardis. Steiner was rather disparate in not committing to a specific system of astrology, and this is what I feel is important. He leaves it to those, like Sucher, Powell, Gray, and Hilton to connect the dots in their fashion. As such, it has an appeal to those, who without it, would sink even more into the abyss of materialism. Yet, some of us exist as initiates in order to face the planetary influences in full square. This is why the Mercury influence was given in relation to Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, and so forth. I think you remember the diagram.

            Here is the paradox of earth evolution as it stands. We live now, since 1413 AD in the Consciousness Soul Age. That is a mere 609 years, with time off for good behavior 🙂

            Yet, the Consciousness Soul Age is actually founded upon the realization of the Intellectual Soul, which is due to the initiates of the 4th Cultural Epoch. So, here in the Sardis Era, we are educated in terms of what accrued to the previous epoch, and its realization, which is Inductive Reasoning. That is why so much of present-day perception accords to a materialistic outlook. Spiritual Science needs all hands on deck, which means all of us, including the aforementioned. We need to take the objective position without losing anything of the personal and subjective.
            This is how we honor personal biographies, and this helps open the channel. Maverick, you help in opening the channel as a churchgoer. I was the son of an atheist. So, go figure how we come together?

            As Hazel suggests, it is likely part of the mystery of the Lemniscate, which creates these strange concatenations, which the 7th Occult Seal Picture seems to imply.

  2. I haven’t heard of Kitezh before. But it is interesting that it is said that it will return as the New Jerusalem. In Steiner’s Apocalypse lectures to the Priests, he says that the New Jerusalem would not be built from the Earth ‘up’ but rather spirtually, it will sink ‘down’ over the Earth. And here we have Kitezh sinking in the water. So I’m not sure what to make of all of that.

    Still seems that we are in the weeds, so to speak. Epochs haven’t transitioned at clear definitive times, even if the impulse is there. But seeing that the 6th is about fraternity between us all, there are many indications all over the place. I haven’t seen any initiatives that have integrated all that is available, at this time (and there is alot). Many streams, very awesome, but it’s a mess, or too obscure for some, too niche, and hasn’t gained much traction. In Russia, they have Kin’s Domains inspired by the Ringing Cedars of Anastasia. As far as community goes, I think they have a good grip on that – and that’s in Russia!

    1. An astute observation, Kyle, regarding the “New Jerusalem”. As far back at least as Abraham (circa 2150 B.C.), we’re told that he “waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.” (Hebrews 11:10). This is where the person of faith’s inheritance lies – not in any city or structure built from the ground up, and it also implies that the person of faith’s heredity isn’t tied to blood lines, but is in our divinity, since the maker of the New Jerusalem is God. Abraham learned over years of development that he was a divine being whose destiny lay more in the Cosmos than in the Earth – (Abraham’s “descendants” went from being “as the dust of the earth” (Genesis 13:16), to being as the “stars in the heavens” (Genesis 15:5).

      1. We are not meant to take these images literally…

        But i suppose we could look at the imagination as coming from what the Christian Community calls the Father Ground of the World…

        1. I’m unaware of what’s happening for you lately, with not even wanting to partake of your own blog (referring to the Prokofieff/Tomberg issue), but I have to respond to your suggestion that we not take the images in the Bible literally. In this view, you’re at odds with Dr. Steiner, who on several occasions emphasized the need to take the Bible very literally. Here is only one sample, the first one that came up in a search, from GA 346, Lecture 4, given in Dornach, Sept. 8, 1924:

          “A literal reading of the Bible is a goal which can be attained. One can really say that anyone who cannot take a particular passage in the Bible literally yet, hasn’t understood it yet, either. Of course this is also true of a lot of other things today.”

          This has been the understanding I’ve come to as well, that those who can’t fathom taking a Bible passage literally, haven’t had the “veil” over their spiritual selves fully lifted yet. As Steiner stated though, it remains a “goal which can be attained”. Steiner has made great progress in lifting that veil in regards to many, many passages from the Bible, progress that was only hampered by his death. I haven’t an inkling of an understanding what you refer to when you said the Christian Community sees such images as coming from the “Father God of the World” – it has the ring of some sort of earthly wisdom. The kind of understanding Steiner speaks of comes not from the earth below, but rays down from the spiritual world (refer to the two types of wisdom given by James, heavenly vs. demonic, in James 3:13-18), in the same manner as the heavenly city rays down from the spiritual world. It may be that humanity needs to evolve more towards becoming “spirit self” before this can be understood.

          1. I guess it just feels like semantics…
            Christ is in the Earth – So too are the highest spiritual hierarchies radiating out from the mineral kingdom. These beings are also represented in the Human Being, in the plant & animal kingdoms & in the cosmic spheres… From the one comes the Trinity & on & on…That’s my point I guess. And we all have our focus of study…Blessings

      2. Yes, Maverick. New Jerusalem certainly can seem like an enigma of sorts. I feel there are pieces to put together here, and keep in mind. Yes, imagery is imagery, but it does imply something of a real phenomena. So what is meant by it?

        Well, there are clues as to what ‘it’ is. Firstly, we cannot expect it (New Jerusalem) to be perceived as mineral substance. Therefore, the pre-requisite is that one has to be able to perceive it in the first place. The ‘sinking down and permeating the Earth’ bit, I believe, has to do with the flux of spiritual fruits done on this level and in the spiritual worlds. We are dealing with, essentially, The Building of the Temple and how to Restore it.

        So what ‘is’ it? We have now, we all perceive the mineral. Before that, in the 4th, people still were able to see Deities among them. The 6th would be a whole other level, if we are to look at the trajectory here. That means, there is an objective spatial field that anyone can see if they have developed the organs to see it. In other words, there can be two people in the same place but if only one has developed the said ‘organ of perception’… then only they can see the New Jerusalem. It really translates into, our consciousness is spiritualised. We can still perceive the mineral, but it won’t have the same significance as we put on it now.

        I think this might be the hardest thing for many to come to grips with. If we look at the Earth cycle, we are on the downtrend. That is enough to cause some sadness, because we have instilled this hope that we can save the Earth. So let me put this on the table. How would people feel towards the end of the 4th cultural epoch, knowing that the Gods/Goddesses they knew and had a direct link to… would fade away from their life? I would imagine that great sadness would come to them. So we have instilled a heartache to move on to what we’ve loved so much. I do believe this is the same sentimentality we hold onto the mineral/physical perception. Therefor, all these ideas of a new flourishing Earth on a material level, is somewhat in vain.

        Now, that doesn’t mean we can defile our Earth and it doesn’t matter! On the contrary, a new perception would beget a new found respect and relationship to our (physical) planet. That would be an indirect result. So what I’m saying is, it is useless to have a Green revolution, of sorts, if it is still steeped in materialism/convenience/etc. We are seeing all sorts of alternative, eco-friendly ways to live, but if they still exist as an alternative means to satiate our mineral-based desires and comforts, then we are really missing the point.

        Thank you all for allowing this discussion. It really is great.

        1. The mineral world will also become spiritualized…supersensible -no longer ‘visible’. Just like the human, animal & plant kingdoms – the whole Earth must rise to a higher vibration transcending the physical.

          In Karmic relationships Vol 3 Steiner describes what it was like for the human being moving from that earlier stage when we received our thinking from the spiritual world & how when the intellectual soul came in, people like Thomas Aquinas & his Dominican brothers had to fight against that old trend to bring in individual thinking…This is described as cause much anxiety & pain in the human soul…https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA237/English/RSP1977/19240701a01.html

          Starting in our time we are meant to bridge these 2 ways of thinking – to work with the spiritualization in consciousness, this was a transformation of the etheric body…In the 6th & 7th Cultural epoch we are purifying our astral & then the ultimate is to turn our bones into spirit – the New Jerusalem can only come thru the spiritualized human being.

          1. Truly! It seems that the ‘fight’ against the old trend, or a different old trend now, is being repeated. This has to be one of the most difficult parts about the spiritualisation of consciousness, is that it takes tremendous will (and constant self reflection) and doesn’t happen automatically – at least today it doesn’t seem to. If there is no congruence as to ‘how’ that spiritualisation happens, then how can a community based upon that expect to exist? Yes, we have the transformation of the etheric body on our side, but all that energy has gone towards technological advancements and material ingenuity. It feels as though, we’ve been given a brand new vehicle but don’t know where to drive or how to drive it.

            1. So true…& there are many forces working to weaken our etheric body keeping us from working with the risen Christ in the periphery of Earth

              1. So true – this Covid battle being waged against the respiratory system is taking quite a toll on ones like myself, who are ruled by Mercury. The organ associated with Mercury is the lungs, and it’s associated “movement of the breath” (according to Gray, Schiappacasse, and Tresemer).

            2. We may need to give increasing attention to the path of initiation spelled out in the Revelation. An aspect of the revelation that’s come to me personally (remember that everyone receives a unique revelation, according to what was imprinted in them at their birth), has perhaps been influenced by my enrollment in the new Astrology, or Astrosophy (star wisdom). As was recently mentioned, the order of events in the Revelation lines up with a vision of the physical body, followed by the letters that reveal the pattern of our etheric body, then the events associated with the seals that open us further to our experiences with the seven planets, which reveals to us our astral bodies. Finally, the rest of the book encourages us to develop our “I” consciousness, by pointing out to us the tribulations the earth will experience by those who ignore developing their “I”. As Hazel and I recently agreed, it’s about time that we, if we haven’t already, embarked on the journey to “Know Thyself”.

              1. Mercury’s influence is highlighted in this lecture, and indeed, it concerns the fitting of the astral elements into the rhythmic system of heart – lungs – respiration – circulation.

                https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA204/English/AP1987/19210505p02.html

                “Similar to the moon, Mercury has its target points more in the inner being of man, working from outside only on the human countenance. In the part lying below the region of the heart, its forces are effective by taking hold inwardly of the human organization and, in turn, streaming forth from there. Mercury’s chief task is to bring the astral body’s activity into all breathing and circulation processes of the human being. Mercury is the intercessor between the astral body and the rhythmic processes in man. Thus, we are able to say that its forces intercede between the astral element and the rhythmic activity (see outline on p. 250). Due to this, similar to the moon forces, the Mercury forces also intervene in the whole human metabolism, but only insofar as the metabolism is subject to rhythm, reacting upon rhythmic activity.”

                Outline of all planetary influences:

                Saturn – upper part of the whole astral body
                Jupiter – thinking
                Mars – speech
                —————————————
                Sun – ego
                —————————————
                Mercury – leading the astral elements into the rhythmic activity of the human being
                Venus – activity of the human etheric body
                Moon – stimulator of reproduction

              2. This is most interesting – thank you Steve for pointing this out. Very helpful. Cheers. P.S. I encourage others to get a birth chart from The Star House (Boulder, CO), and become familiar with it. They also offer courses, and their Anthroposophical insights are valued. I’m not saying this to promote them, just saying that I’ve learned a lot about myself.

              3. So, your relationship is with Mercury, and this is important because Mercury is the newly designated “Morning Star”, as identified in the fourth letter to the community of Thyatira. I was impressed by what you said here:

                “We may need to give increasing attention to the path of initiation spelled out in the Revelation. An aspect of the revelation that’s come to me personally (remember that everyone receives a unique revelation, according to what was imprinted in them at their birth)…”

                Now, one of the things that this revelation at birth points to is that it can be discovered within the seven letters that an incarnational trail exists. This means that a careful study and meditation on the seven letters form Ephesus to Laodicea each have a relationship to our present life on earth. It is possible over time to intuit how each letter contains an echo of a singular event that has occurred in the present life. This further proves that Revelation is a book of initiation which is unique because it contains the future forecasted. That is why Rudolf Steiner encouraged the Priests to develop a Fourth Mystery Epoch of our time for the Michael Culture.

              4. Yes, at one time I just took the astrologist’s word for it that Mercury was my ruling planet, but recently I’ve had opportunity to examine my own birth chart – out of 42 angular relationships of the planets given in my chart, or “aspects” as they’re also called, 24 are associated with Mercury. The rest are in either Mars, Venus or the Sun. So I’ve gained for myself an understanding of Mercury’s influence on my present incarnation.

                When I read of your mention of “letters”, I didn’t think so much of the letters in Revelation, although I know that’s what you were referring to. Rather, my thoughts went to the vowels and consonants that Steiner tells us that the cosmos gives us. This is spoken of by Steiner in something called “The Alphabet: An Expression of the Mystery of Man”, Dornach, Dec. 18, 1921. It’s these vowels and consonants through which I’m learning more about my physical and etheric body. I’m currently in an in-depth look at the seven letters of the Revelation, and it’s proving to be a long process. What I’m finding interesting, is that the consonants show me what Gray calls the “echo of the zodiac”, while the vowels are showing me the “echo of the planetary movements”. Most people, when reading the seven letters of Revelation, refer to geographical location of these places, like the Thyatira you mention. But what has been more meaningful for me is to recognize their relationship with the seven visible planets. Associating them with the etheric body is somewhat different from Steiner’s view, where he associates the planets with the astral body. This is where the insights Cayce gives into the Revelation have helped, as they give me the relationship of the planets to the etheric body; that is, he associates each planet with one of the seven endocrine glands that have been called, in the eastern paths, “chakras”. So it’s been interesting to me to first think of my physical body and how it’s the echo of the zodiac, but inside this physical form, I have been given a unique spiritual formation, or echo of the planetary movements. This unique formation, or echo, as evidenced from how I chose to enter under Mercury’s influence, but in a unique combination with the other planets, has determined what my own etheric body manifests as. Just as no two leaves are alike, or two blades of grass, I find this uniqueness a fascinating part of our individuality, and yet we all have a unity in that we’ve been formed from the same substances – the earth, in the case of our physical body, or spirit, in the case of our etheric body.

                I guess what I’m saying is that, in my look at the seven letters of Revelation, rather than seeing geographical or historical events tied to these locations, I’m seeing more of their connection to the cosmos. This has more meaning for me at this stage in my life – I’ve spent most of my life finding my place as a citizen of earth; now, my emphasis is more on discovering my place as a citizen of the cosmos.

              5. Maverick, the number seven does seem to come up everywhere. Aside from the letters being geographical locations, they can also mean cultural Epochs. For the lesson of Sardis is the one we are going through now, is it not? Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that there is only one interpretation of it. But surely, there are fractal meanings, micro-macro cosmic symbols and the like. I appreciate what stands out to the individual, such as yourself, and what strikes as relevant. I suppose that is proof how the universe speaks to all of us?

                Now, I am very interested in this Astrology course you are taking. I’ve seen some of Brian Gray’s presentations posted on Youtube, and I do appreciate his style. You must be learning quite a bit! I do have some background with this stuff, so I’ve gone down somewhat of a rabbit hole looking for clues from Steiner regarding astrology. Surprisingly, he doesn’t seem to have much to say on birth charts, and reading one’s birth charts. Rather, it Anthroposophists such as Willi Sucher who delved more into ‘Astrosophy’. Also, I had read somewhere on the archive, another article I can’t find at the moment, writings on the importance of the Moon placement during one’s conception. Again, not written by Steiner.

                My question for you is, what you are learning with Gray and others right now, are your birth charts determined by your birth time/location just as most standard natal charts these days are? Or are they based more on Lunar positions at time of conception? Thanks!

              6. I’m going to answer right away; it’s late evening here in Alberta, Canada, but there’s something compelling about your inquiry. There are powerful lessons for us in the seven letters, but you’re right in saying that they can be, should be, individual. For example, I align more with Philadelphia, the 6th. I actually found my life purpose/mission while meditating on this one – it’s one of the most rewarding experiences in my life. I finally, after 60-some years of wondering, know why I came into this incarnation. Regarding Sardis, I can only hope Steve will chime in, since he’s mentioned that this is the letter he aligns with. There certainly are cultural epochal lessons, but for me, right now, I’m mostly experiencing the cosmic connection side of them, which is probably due to my studies in the Astrology. I’m actually feeling the connection I have with the planets, how they affect me, and how my actions affect them. I neglected to say anything about the number 7 – Steiner tells us that 7 is the number for “temporal” perfection, while 12 is the number for “eternal” perfection. We can see this in our solar system and our zodiac, and it has a place in the Revelation – most of the book is referring to our temporal situation on Earth, but the last two chapters switch to the number 12, indicating a switch to the eternal state of consciousness.

                I learned about The Star House through Hazel’s blog – she posted for a while about a course they have coming up in June. Then the A.S.A. put on some webinars called Three Powerful Women, in which the teachers from The Star House (including Brian Gray) looked at the birth charts of these women – seeing that convinced me that taking this June course was for me. Right now, I’m taking a couple of their courses called Basic Astrology 1 & 2, which are kind of prerequisites to prepare one for the intensive 5-day course in June. I’m learning so much, and the timing has been perfect, such that I know that spiritual beings have been behind it all.

                I’m learning to look at birth charts from the Babylonian sidereal (star-based) zodiac. It is different from the “tropical” zodiac system that most astrologers today use. They say this is in the “Zarathustra” tradition of astrology. The research of Willi Sucher is used, as well as that of Elisabeth Vreede, but there are others they credit – Robert Powell, William Bento, Claudia McClaren Lainson are some names mentioned. Some terms they use are that it’s “geocentric”, and that it uses equal houses. For more details than that, this is their website: https://www.thestarhouse.org/

                Hope this answers your pressing concerns; if not, I’m sure Hazel will let us post more comments. It’s getting late, so will bid adieu.

              7. I am thinking that this lecture from GA124 might help in distinguishing how the Mercury stream developed out of the former Buddha-Mercury stream, which prevailed in the pre-Christ era.

                https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA124/English/RSP1985/19110313p02.html

                As such, this is how we get the focus of a ‘morning star’ at the time of Thyatira. I am only presenting the idea, which is true nonetheless. Rudolf Steiner describes it in meticulous detail, and thanks for that. To hear from humans today would be insufferable 🙂

              8. Thank you for the reply Maverick, and thank you Hazel for giving the space for allowing this conversation to continue!

                Are the equal houses similar to whole sign houses? Meaning, each zodiac assigned to one house only, not the overlap you see in the Placidus method so commonly used.

                I do resonate more with the geocentric approach, as did Ptolemy. You know, after reading some of your comments, you reminded me of Marcus Manilius’ Astronomica, written sometime around 90 BC. He lays great emphasis on everything being ‘spherical’. Of course, that is how we perceive things, isn’t it? But I find that rather interesting, because that is how our ‘eyes’ perceive things. Steiner mentions when we look at the Sun, for example, we are not seeing the whole ‘Sun’, but the true Sun is more occult. I find that fascinating. For this implies that the Cosmos is more likely to be a Dodecahedron, 12… which goes along with your assessment of it being a cosmic number.

                Furthermore, Steiner points out the Earth being more of a rounded tetrahedron… which can fit perfectly into a Cube. Now, it may come off very diminishing to reduce everything down to simple geometry, but geometry can change, morph, depending on different ‘lines’ being drawn. Isn’t it fascinating that astrology is very much based on geometry? Aspects, in other words, are lines that connect two points together.

                With the dodecahedron, again, it perfectly fits the bill for the representation of the cosmos. Even wikipedia suggests a clue:

                “While the regular dodecahedron shares many features with other Platonic solids, one unique property of it is that one can start at a corner of the surface and draw an infinite number of straight lines across the figure that return to the original point without crossing over any other corner”

                Infinite number of lines. Infinite possibilities, and any number of shapes. The personalities we take when we incarnate on Earth have a unique geometrical ‘stamp’.

              9. Wow, I find your comments so interesting. You and Brian Gray would probably find much to chat about. The question you asked about equal houses vs. whole sign houses I had to Google, since I haven’t come across that yet. Here’s what I found: “In the Equal house system, the degree of the ascendant becomes the degree of all the house cusps, whereas in the whole sign system, it’s like all the house cusps are 0 degrees.” In my geometric birth chart, the Ascendant is on the left, and is right in the middle of a house – this makes the other main points also right in the middle of their houses. Sounds like with the whole sign house, it’s at 0 degrees. That’s all I know for now – any more info on that you’d have to talk to Brian.

                I bet that book you mention would be good reading. I forgot to mention one name that Brian referenced. He mentions the research of Cyril Fagan. Here’s a phrase he said: “Re-discovery of this authentic zodiac (Babylonian sidereal) by astrologer Cyril Fagan 62 years ago (the article is from 2012, so add some years) – a zodiac of star constellations that one can see in the night sky, rather than the imperceptible abstraction, the ‘tropical zodiac’ – is an invaluable contribution to renewing star wisdom.”

                I love your last point about all our personalities being like infinite lines. Our soul mind will retain the memory of every one of those personalities, which means we’ll each be fascinating beings, with a fascinating story to tell, once we have access to all the memories, or all the mental pictures we’ve had in those experiences. Thanks too for all the interesting geometric thoughts you gave us to ponder. Geometry and astronomy do make an interesting combination.

              10. Regarding your inquiry Kyle, about differences between whole sign houses, and the earth-centered (geometric) equal-house system – I was re-reading Brian Gray’s article, where he talks about the houses (the article in The Journal for Star Wisdom 2011, “Anthroposophic Foundations for a Renewal of Astrology”), and he does talk about whole sign houses. I must have glazed over it before, since there’s a lot there that’s way over my head at my current level of understanding. Gray truly admires the whole sign house system, but says we need to pursue it further through the geocentric equal-house system they use at The Star House.

                Here’s what he says: “An advantage of whole-sign houses is that they are an equal division of the ecliptic into twelve signs of the zodiac. Whole-sign houses nearly align with Rudolf Steiner’s picture of the ‘I’ being related to ‘the perception of the echo of the zodiac’. However, they are not yet the perception of the echo of the zodiac, since the whole-sign houses are equivalent with the signs of the zodiac. One further step is required for the whole-sign houses to fulfill the quality of being ‘the perception of the echo of the zodiac’ – that is, the ‘perception of the physical body.’ ”

                So it sounds to me like he’s saying that “equivalence” with the zodiac signs is not what Steiner envisioned when he (Steiner) refers to the “I” as being the perception of the echo of the zodiac (“Esoteric Studies: Cosmic Ego and Human Ego – The Nature of Christ, the Resurrected”, Jan. 9, 1912). Brian gets pretty technical when he explains how the further step to the geocentric equal-house system is needed, a lot of which just goes over my head for now. Hope this helps. Cheers.

        2. Replying to both Kyle and Hazel – I find this a fascinating conversation, which is why I’m bothering to comment; if I didn’t find it so, well, there are better ways to spend one’s time. It’s also a difficult convo because, as you mention Kyle, there are differing levels of spiritual perception, according to how one has developed their spiritual organs of perception, so one has to be somewhat vague. One also has to exercise care in what one shares, just as Steiner exercised when he revealed certain “mysteries”. One reason for using caution in revealing these “enigmas” (to use your word Kyle) is the presence of those beings who will abuse knowledge – say, for their own egoism. We’re pretty safe discussing the New Jerusalem, since it’s source is the vision which was given to John, recorded for our benefit and blessing, according to Rev. 1:3, so it’s something that’s been recorded for anyone’s perusal.

          I agree with you Kyle, that it’s less about a city of substance, and more of a dwelling-place of consciousness. As to what kind of consciousness, one thing to notice is it’s dimensions, which are a cube – a very large cube, miles in measurement, but still a 4-dimensional cube that has 6 surfaces (21:16, John first calls it a square, but then adds that its height is equal to its length and breadth). Both are interesting numbers – there’s a whole book that’s been compiled on the subject of Steiner’s view of The Fourth Dimension, in which he hints at his own supposition that the human being is a 6-dimensional being. Keep in mind that he also points out, that to manifest any dimension requires losing one dimension, hence someone or something in a 4th dimension would manifest itself in a 3-dimensional manner, and likewise someone or something who is a 6-dimensional being would necessarily manifest as a 5th-dimensional object. Interesting that we have a sudden plethora of people claiming their 5th-dimensional nature, isn’t it? An interesting insight I learned while giving thought to this cube-shaped city – when you unfold a cube (as Steiner does with many shapes in the aforementioned book), you have an object that looks like a cross – kind of like a constant reminder of the Mystery of Golgotha that makes all of our evolving consciousness possible, isn’t it? Lest we get too “airy” here, Hazel mentions the struggle we are in, with spiritualizing the consciousness. The book of Revelation is no stranger to that struggle, having been given many interpretations over the years – so far, I’ve been most taken with Cayce’s interpretation, and Steiner’s and those associated with Anthroposophy.

          I’m not much interested in all the talk about the mineral kingdom, but I would point to the transition from the end of Rev. 20 to the beginning of Rev. 21. At the presence of the “great white throne”, we’re told that “the earth and the heaven fled from the face of the One who sat on the throne”, and no place was found for them. My version (NKJV) refers to it as “fled”; other versions will describe it differently. Then, in Rev. 21, we have a “new heaven and a new earth”. That’s all I need to know; someone else can search and seek out what happens to the mineral kingdom; it’s not my concern. There are other instances given in the Bible that refer to the disappearance of the earth and heavens (2 Peter 3:10-13, Matthew 25:35).

          There are so many interesting concepts that arise from this vision of the city recorded for us, but one that reminds me of the reality of the city – that is, that this is not an imaginative vision of John’s mind – is the oft-missed fact that John is asked to measure the city (21:15). There are only two times in this book that John’s involved in measuring (11:1 and here). One only has to remember Steiners reference to the Revelation as a book of initiation into the new mysteries; measurement, when applied to initiation is another word for evaluation, so twice John is asked at these two junctures to take stock of himself, and likewise we should follow John’s example. The first measurement is done with a simple reed, and John is told to measure the temple for himself. Here, the angel brings out the gold reed, and measures the city for John. This seemingly minor fact teaches me that this city is all about our evolving consciousness (there’s lots of gold mentioned, and pearls and other gems), and the success (hopefully not failure) of our initiation in the new mysteries – that spiritualizing of our consciousness. Steiner cautions us not to view things in the spiritual world as we do in this material world, and this city is a perfect example. One can’t just jump into chapter 21 of this book and make any snap judgments based on our current understanding; rather, the process of initiation that the book leads us in must be followed in its given order. The Revelation is a fascinating book, still revealing mysteries to us today, revelations which are as unique as we are individually. Unique, yet we will all dwell in one city of consciousness. There are also those who will choose to not evolve – Rev. 22 indicates that one of our missions/services will be to take the leaves of the trees of life, which will be used for the healing of the nations. So there will be nations on the new earth, but nothing that defiles will be permitted to enter our dwelling place of consciousness.

          1. The 1st thing that jumped out at me was the image of a cube…Which is the shape of the Rosicrucian Altar…
            So many symbols to contemplate…

            1. The Seventh Occult Seal Picture of the Apocalypse depicts the Cube as a geometric structure which is actively being worked into by the two serpents. Its six-sided configuration is meant to be associated with “PSSR – Per Spiritum Sanctum Reviviscmus”, which accords with the 6th Epoch. Thus, minerality is undergoing a process of being rounded off into a watery-aeriform sphere of downward descent, which is the Realm of the Spirit-Selhood, or Pentecost. This metamorphosis is ongoing in slow degrees, but it can be accelerated. The key is the Michael Culture.

              https://steinerlibrary.org/Lectures/101/AP1972/Lecture_04.html

              https://steinerlibrary.org/Lectures/101/AP1972/images/Seal_07.webp

              1. In looking at this 7th Occult Seal picture, it is very interesting to observe the Dove near the top, and above the Dove, the fin of a fish. You see, very little effort has been taken over the years to understand the parameters of this picture, or the other six, until Rudolf Steiner did so beginning in 1907. So, this becomes an important part of our looking into Revelations, which has come up on this particular blog post. Obviously, there is an increasing appeal for it. One of the important parameters with the occult seal pictures is that they provide the means to engage with the methodology that inheres to Rudolf Steiner’s book, “Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and Its Attainment”. In other words, by focused meditation and concentration on these seven pictures, exact clairvoyance is developed. It is without question possible to achieve clairvoyance, or at least a measure of a kind of clarified intuition by exploring the parameters of these pictures.

                For example, in considering the mystery of the Fish Fin at the very top, which stands at the exact midpoint between ‘EDN’ and ‘JCM’, we have this presentation in the 7th Seal, which is obviously the most occult of all the pictures.

                So, here we have the image of Ichthys, which is a combined formation involving I-CH, and Thyatira, which refers to the era, although this article only refers to the fish in the sign of Pisces.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

          2. This is definitely alot to digest. Thank you for putting in the time to lay this down. I had to get out my own Bible (ESV) and re-look at Revelations. Before the index and list of abreviations, they have a table of ‘weight and measurement units’ as well as monetary units (I don’t know if all versions have it or not). With that, you can figure out that 12,000 stadia for the height/width/length is 7,284,000 feet or 1,380 miles. Very specific, but why? Then the wall is 144 cubits (by human measurement), which is also an ‘angel’s measurement’. The walls were adorned with every kind of jewel – which twelve are given. And you have a street that is gold that is transparent as glass.

            I understand the literal context of this, and even in (22:18) it is said anyone who hears this prophecy is not to add to it or take away from it… but surely describing something supersensible, this would have to be the closest language, or symbolism, to explain what John saw and heard.

            This has probably got to be one of the most intense experiences, to get this Revelation with the help from an Angel, and then go on to telling of it in a way that would best fit our own terminology.

            The closest personal experience I have in mind of seeing angels or imagery that looks like jewelry, was when I passed out in the hospital due to blood loss. I’ve passed out before, but never witnessed something like that. The imagery looked kaleidescopic, and very colourful, and I also sensed many beings… hundreds maybe, that felt like family sending warmth, love, and support. What I found out later, was that this imagery looked something like a Hildegard von Bingen vision of a circle of angels. But that is probably the closest anthropomorphic rendering of what it was. Do angels actually have feathered wings? I don’t think so.

            There is also another clue as to what we are seeing, which is a kind of inversion of light, but more from a pure source. That would explain a kind of kaleidoscope multicoloured vision that ‘seems’ like beings with wings flapping around, but perhaps it is the light pulsating around them(?).

            In regards to Initiation, I couldn’t help but think of ‘Remembering’. There’s a kind of timelessness that seems to happen with Apocalyptic visions that get a gestalt cosmic picture. I only say Remembering, because it seems as though deep down, we know it already.

            1. Well, Kyle, it’s obvious you’re giving this subject a great deal of thought, and I’d encourage you to continue in that vein. You speak of the intense experience for John of receiving this revelation, but don’t lose sight of the intense experience that the Master had to go through to receive this revelation from God – “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants….” (1:1). It took the finished work/mission of what Steiner calls the Mystery of Golgotha, which was an intense experience. Knowledge of this should increase our appreciation and reverence for this book.

              Yes, Steiner saw this book as a new means of initiation, which can really be viewed as a life-long process by us, a process of what Hazel has called spiritualizing ourselves – body, mind and soul. What are we being initiated into? One thing is initiation into an understanding of the laws of the spiritual world, which are quite different from the world we’re in now, which is why I think Hazel spoke of the tension that can come from being in two worlds. Something that stands out for me is the place of thinking, of thought itself. Steiner, in his Intuitive Thinking book, explains that in this world, percept and concept have been separated, and it’s our process of cognition, or of thinking, that unites these two. However, in the spiritual world, which is the scene of the Revelation, the same laws don’t apply. Viewing such scenes as John did, the same process of thinking didn’t apply. Spiritual beings inherently “know”; they don’t have to examine percept and concept and unite them, as we do. This is where so many have failed to grasp the underlying truths of this book. If we’re seriously wanting to understand it’s message, we need to make the effort to learn the laws that apply in the spiritual world. This is why I mentioned that initiation can be a life-long process. Think how long it’s taking humanity to understand and apply the laws of this material world; here, in the Revelation, we’re given access to another world that has a whole new set of laws for us to understand. And this is where I appreciated your note about “remembrance”, because deep in our soul memories, we can remember when we too would intuitively know things, without going through the thinking process we do while in the physical world. This is especially true when we’re in meditation, or in some kind of continuity of consciousness, where the illusion of time is set aside.

              I really enjoyed hearing about your kaleidoscope vision, and I wish I could have had such an experience, but haven’t (yet). This is why I was saying (and why Steiner said) that we need to get our own personal revelation from the book. It’s not that the laws change or the general framework of the book changes for each individual, but it’s that we’ve all had our unique experiences which make up our soul-bodies. In astrological terms, Brian Gray calls this one of the four “correspondences” between our being and the vibrations spoken into the cosmos at our birth entry. I refer to this as the “name” the cosmos gives us at birth, a name being something much more complex than we usually think of. Sometimes our parents are attuned enough with the cosmos that the name they give us reverberates with those same vibrations the cosmos spoke, but many times they don’t. That’s something we can all easily do, is to sound out our given name, and try and determine if it has the same “ring” to it, if it’s in attunement with what the cosmos gave at our entry. To do this, it really helps to learn to read one’s birth chart, which is something I’m presently learning to do. This is why I now prefer to use the name “Maverick” – while my parents were alive, out of respect for their choice, I used the name they gave me, but now that they’ve transitioned I find the name Maverick more suitable. I desire to be an independent thinker – by independent I mean I don’t want to be just a mouthpiece for other’s thoughts, but strive for my own original ideas, where I reference the thoughts of others and give them credit where credit is due, but use them as a springboard into my own unique results.

  3. This is one of the moral failings of S Prokofieff. He presents the legend of the city of Kitezh as a myth of the 6th cultural period as his own occult discovery. However he took this discovery from Valentin Tomberg and did not declare it. Prokofieff led a very strong campaign against Tomberg, then of course he cannot admit that he took this from him. In academic circles this is called plagiarism, as an occult factor, of course, it weighs much more heavily.

    1. If you read Prokofieff’s book you would know that this legend is from his tradtion which has nothing to do tomberg. Your reply feels like a curse, not a moral gesture, but one of shame & blame which of course will have repercussions

      1. Hi Hazel, just for you. I am more involved in this story than it seems and this does not need to be made public. It was about 1986 when I gave to SOP after a lecture in Steiner Haus in Stuttgart the manuscript of a book which today has also been translated into English, Munin Nederlander, Kitezh, The Russian Grail Legends ISBN-13 : 978-1855380370 . It was first published in Dutch in 1988, for the 1000 year celebration in Russia. In this book, the reference to the city of Kitezh was also included, after Tomberg first referred to it in de 30s. The legend has been handed down in an ancient language, the old Church Slavonic, and was translated into a modern language for the first time on my initiative. By the way, this legend even includes a map of Russia, where the location of this city is indicated. Again: the story is very old, but the realization that this legend is the myth for the 6 culture period, for Philadelphia, comes from V. Tomberg.

        I see your vehement defense of S.O. Prokofieff, so I do not want to give more details about this story. However, it takes a greatness to admit mistakes. And I think it “helps” him if we correct his mistake now.
        And of course I know this book of Prokofieff; of course, as soon as his book appeared, I wanted to know how he treats the story of Kitezh.
        You may keep this comment to yourself or publish it, do as you please.

        1. In reply to Ottmar & any others who are perpetuating false accusations –

          I have found in my experience that often I am called to write about a certain topic. Then all of a sudden 2 other people have also written about the same topic. I believe that the spiritual world provides us with many opportunities to bring inspirations into the earthly realm.

          We see it all the time with ‘inventions’ where one person is credited with bringing in the impulse, but in reality many others also ‘invented’ the same thing…That dear friends is not plagiarism, it is the spiritual world wanting something to come thru…

          Someone gives us a book, or we synchroniciticly run across certain of Steiner’s lectures, or whatever, that then inspires us to do more research…I have often used my own bloodline connections as an impetus to explore certain legends or mysteries that have informed my presentations…

          The impulse for the 6th cultural epoch was coming in way back with the likes of Scythianos & the Atlantean Sun Oracle Manu & into the knowing of Zarathustra…& can be seen in the works of Novalis…etc…

          The original text of the legend of Kitezh consists of 2 separate narratives coming down to us from one of the streams of the ‘Old Believers’ – The Beguni – runners, wanders, written in 1138, devoted to the Divine Sophia. Seen in the Cultural guise of the Dormition or Assumption of the Blessed Virgin – in the icon of the Virgin of Fyodorovakaya – embodied in the Festival of the Intercession, or protecting Veil of the Virgin – one of the great Russian Festivals.

          Here we see the connection with the legend of Kitezh & the essential nature of the 6th Cultural epoch. The 1st imagination of the Festival represents the descent of the Spirit-Self into the souls of Humanity – the substance of the ‘New Palladium’ . The 2nd imagination of Kitezh refers to the future appearance of the New Jerusalem on Earth – the new social community founded on universal brother/sisterhood in good will…

          The text itself proclaims its connection to the second coming of Christ & can be compared to Steiner’s How to Know Higher Worlds in the chapter called Conditions.

          This cursing of Prokofieff is the opposite of that impulse.

          The impulse for the Holy Grail was also coming in during the 9th – 12th Centuries thru the Spirits of Form, working to counteract the Tartars who represented the illicit elemental forces which among other things worked to divide humanity & who destroyed Atlantis.

          It makes me wonder who is working thru you when I read your false accusations & curse. With all the beautiful things that we could be discussing around this impulse, to choose to make it a war between individualities is exactly what is happening out in the world – A deliberate misuse of what these imaginations are meant to foster in humanity.

          From Steiner’s Philosophy of Freedom: ‘A moral misunderstanding, a clash, is impossible between people who are morally free…to live in love for the deed & to let live in an understanding of the will of the other is the fundamental maxim of free human beings’

      2. This book of Tomberg’s essays is likely where Ottmar makes his charge of plagiarism by Prokofieff.

        https://www.scribd.com/document/394106336/Russian-Spirituality-and-Other-Essays-Valentin-Tomberg

        Written in the 1930’s, which is obviously long before Prokofieff was even born, it has an important chapter on Kitezh. If Prokofieff is guilty, then there should be evidence of copying Tomberg’s text into the book by Prokofieff on “The Spiritual Origins and Eastern Europe…..”. As such, plagiarism is a serious charge.

        Now, of course, your position, Hazel, is that the tradition established by the myth of Kitezh goes back to the 12th century, and therefore, Prokofieff is only gathering his own thoughts about its future consequences. Yet, we know that Tomberg is the first to write about Kitezh from a spiritual-scientific standpoint, c. 1930’s.

        So, it is likely up to Ottmar to do the comparative study in order to prove his plagiarism charge. This book by Tomberg on Russian Spirituality seems very important.

        I still scratch my head over Prokofieff’s critical issues with Tomberg, and what they really were, and this makes this charge all the more important to discuss. I know that Tomberg’s going over to the Catholic church after being refused by Steiner-von Sivers was a big factor. Yet, how does this make him a disciple of Loyola?

        You see, these are musings from a recently bygone era, when their consideration seemed important. In 2022, they are hardly even considered, and why Ottmar has made a very compelling/provocative charge. I have reasons for honoring his charge of plagiarism. It is very serious.

    2. Thank you Ottmar. I feel it’s good to hear both sides of the story. I’ve so far avoided looking into Prokofieff’s material, so I don’t feel the same sting that Hazel and others might by your comments. He seems to have created that kind of divisiveness, very similar to Steiner’s effect on people – many just adore him, but some take the opposite stand. Steiner obviously was no stranger to enemies, with the burning of the first Goetheanum clear evidence. I appreciate learning of your insight regarding Tomberg; I have read some of his material, and enjoyed it.

      1. I think Ottmar makes a strong case for SOP receiving an unpublished manuscript in 1986 concerning Kitezh, and then publishing his own book three years later. As well, SOP’s treatment of Valentin Tomberg, which comes in a critical attack written in 1995, ref. “The Case Against Valentin Tomberg”, could be looked at as a means to alleviate a kind of guilt complex for having stolen from Tomberg.

        In listening to Hazel’s defense of what could be construed as cosmopolitan spiritual initiatives working progressively for the future of humanity, and seeing an important resolution coming forth in the 6th cultural epoch, it is not without significance that in the 20th century such a concentration of effort and intent can be seen in the work of three, and even four, historical figures: Rudolf Steiner, Valentin Tomberg, Munnin Nederlander, and Sergei Prokofieff. They have all contributed to our perception and anticipation of the future Philadelphia, or Spirit-Self Age, which is the Time of Christ, Who declared it Himself.

        1. These kinds of tit for tat comparisons & judgements against character etc. deeply saddens me. I feel disinclined to engage or even contribute to my own blog…

          1. It is sad to hear you say that when the goal is really to be as objective as possible for the sake of truth and knowledge. Prokofieff has written some magnificent works, but has also maligned the efforts and reputations of others that he feels he needs to criticize.

              1. Yes it is. The reason that it is objective and truthful is because I acknowledge that Prokofieff has written some magnificent works of pure Steinerian dialectics, although even here he gives certain twists and turns that alert other astute anthroposophists as to his overall motivation. Where he gets himself into trouble is when he writes tomes against other honest people aligned with anthroposophy, i.e., Valentin Tomberg, Judith von Halle. This is where he hurts himself, and I know many people who disparage of Prokofieff only because he felt the need to criticize other honest students of the science of the spirit.

                Please remember, I am not the one who has declared that Prokofieff plagiarized the work of another man, who remains largely unknown, while Prokofieff writes his opus on “The Spiritual Origins of Eastern Europe and the Future Grail Mysteries”, c. 1989. You have heard of what occurred, and yet you choose to deny it. Yet, we all know of how Prokofieff has maligned both Tomberg, and later, Judith von Halle. This is very objective in its rendering, and maybe you choose to agree with it. I know personally with regard to Judith von Halle, that you subscribe to Prokofieff’s assessment of her. I remain aloof with regard to both Tomberg and von Halle, and this gives me the advantage of the human equipotential system, which strives to see all sides. You seem to have made up your mind in favor of Prokofieff. Is this a GAS imperative? Well, he certainly did do a lot. Yet, his one flaw was not allowing others to have their say without criticism. The former was Valentin Tomberg, who died in 1973, and the latter was Judith von Halle, who survives Prokofieff to this day, and has her own audience of subscribers.

                So, why do you think that Prokofieff had to make these attacks? Certainly, he was within his own wheelhouse, so to speak, and yet
                he felt the need to uphold Steiner as if he had taken possession of his Karma, and we all know that he felt that way. And, coming from the Russian Folk Soul, it makes it all the more extraordinary in this day and age. Let us not forget that Prokofieff’s major opponent was also another Russian, Gennady Bondarev, and he has also written tomes to Steiner. Yet, their apparent collaboration for the good of the Russian Anthroposophical Society somehow came apart.

              2. Prokofieff did not make any attacks – that is your projection since that is what you & many others are doing…

                The insights he shares about the Jesuit misuse of the will forces veiled in the Catholicism of Tomberg & the Soratic physicalization of Judith von Halle are well researched & presented without any rancor whatsoever – important Spiritual Science based on Steiner – a wake-up call to try to see the truth.

                Those who avoid or are not willing to sincerly read his research with an open mind can only spread gossip, point fingers & call foul play around the sentimentalism & unconscious overshadowing that pervades these personalities.

                We can agree to disagree about what I have so crudely outlined. Those who are not willing to take up Prokofieff’s Scholarly warning can also keep their opinion, & continue to use words like attack etc. To each his own. I have other work to do, & will not be engaging in this unfruitful back & forth again.

  4. Thank you for introducing me to Hermann Beckh. While I don’t have time for another book right now, he has a number of books on a variety of subjects (mostly through Temple Lodge Publishers) that are worthy of consideration. I especially like the sounds of his book, “The Language of the Stars” – Temple Lodge describes it as the crowning masterpiece of his collected works. As someone wrote, “a polymath hardly describes him”; he sounds like an amazing scholar, another one to add to the list of scholars I’d never heard of.

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